Comments on: Ebony: Dark Outlook For Dark Woods? https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/ WOOD Wed, 17 May 2023 08:41:16 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.3 By: Filip https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-19740 Wed, 17 May 2023 08:41:16 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-19740 Dear Eric, thank you so much for writing this above. I am a lover of wood and have been making instruments for nearly 30 years, but I always try to look at wood also from the perspective of tree protection, so that future generations have the opportunity to admire these wonderful plants and their wood. Unfortunately, too many people don’t want to know the dark side of the timber trade. Also, many institutions turn a blind eye to illegal trade (which is bringing species to extinction at a terrifying rate). I am very saddened by the fact that large companies (e.g. European) legally trade in large quantities of wood of endangered species and subject to (theoretically) export sanctions. At the same time, if someone privately imported a really tiny piece of such wood, they could go to jail. We see that this is not fair, much less safe for the species. An example is Diospyros crassiflora ebony wood, available from many importers in Europe and beyond. Also the species most probably associated with the death of people – Dalbergia cochinchinensis – on many of the most famous sales platforms (e.g. ebay – I reported the case many times – without result) there are large amounts of this wood straight from Thailand. It is worth emphasizing that this applies to civilized countries and one would expect that such procedures are not possible. What China is doing is not worth mentioning, because it is tragic that the world pretends that it does not see how tens of thousands of Chinese factories (supported by the Chinese government) processing thousands of tons of illegally exported wood quickly lead many species to complete extinction. I have the impression that the wood of endangered species only raises the price and increases the desire to own; this is the human mentality. I appeal to you, dear craftsmen: there are many species that are not endangered and have wonderful properties and appearance. It’s worth remembering. Imagine that all the trees have already been cut down, but there are 10 pear and cherry trees (Prunus cerasus) on your property… one is dry and you cut it into squares… isn’t it a precious and beautiful wood? :-)

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By: Alan Milligan https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-19044 Fri, 27 Jan 2023 22:56:05 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-19044 I receny found an interesting alternative to ebony … Oak. Specifically oak from slats that were recovered from inside a used wine barrel. Black with the slightest hint of a reddish purple. The color went all through the wood so there is no danger of sanding through the stain. I am suspicious of the strength of the wood but it works well for an accent piece. Attached is an image of a phone holder with the wine oak used.

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By: Charles Kaneb https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-18672 Sun, 13 Nov 2022 05:12:38 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-18672 Another substitute to consider for a black accent is dense, stiff, easy to machine, uniformly black, and cold.

I’m referring to aluminum, anodized black after working.

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By: Paul https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-17318 Sun, 24 Apr 2022 14:24:37 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-17318 In reply to lakshwadeep.

I disagree. The woodworker does very little imho. I have visited some ultra rich houses, literaly and virtually. They are filled to the brim with all sorts of exotic woods. Its not that different…actually its not different at all from ancient times. The more rare something is the more the uber rich seek it out. This is the same as poaching. The average joe doesn’t really care about ivory or a tigers liver . But the super rich especially ones that subscribe to the new age and old age crap that a powedered rhino horn will make you some sort of sex god do. Same for wood. Many of these exotic woods have a strange mythos attached to them. Lately i even heard that ebony has some sort of magic protection powers from “dark arts” (thanks Harry Potter). Im not kidding the wand makers in Disney actually use ebony among many other. Alivans is the name of the wand maker.

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By: Joseph Ellison https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-14749 Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:02:29 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-14749 In reply to Bjorn.

Hi Bjorn, yes, I like your comment about learning to code lol. can you post a reference to the Greenpeace episode?

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By: Eric https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-13575 Tue, 09 Mar 2021 09:31:14 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-13575 In reply to Bjorn.

Regarding domestic woods, I think the term is relative. You may not need to restrict yourself only to TX. I’d recommend to anyone in the US or Canada to look into some highly figured walnut. In my opinion, it can be every bit as stunning as exotic imported woods — and usually just as expensive as well!

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By: Bjorn https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-13552 Fri, 05 Mar 2021 11:06:58 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-13552 While I love using more exotic woods in my projects, it saddens me to see how the world wood market is so parasitic. I commend the conservation efforts that are organic, I do not agree with global agencies that swoop down from ivory towers and shut down the commercial aspect of an area in the name of conservation. I can’t imagine how hard an area is hit economically when your entire life has been harvesting your local trees then outsiders shut it all down, then essentially tell you “Learn to code”. Then fly away. This type of practice a good deal of the time is purely political where backroom deals are made with one nation who has product, but wants their competition gone. We all remember the cries of 100 acres a minute was being cut down in the Amazonian rain forests that Greenpeace was gaslighting everyone about. Then once the Head of Greenpeace was put on the spot to actually see the areas he was talking about and was given a helicopter ride so he could see with his own eyes that his comments were untrue. That there were thousands of square miles of forest because the figure Greenpeace were using would have had the entire tree population of the continent is South America wiped out within something like 12 days.
There has to be better solutions to it all. Education of the areas where these beautiful trees thrive to modern methods of rotating cultivation areas. The practice of planting three trees for everyone cut down. Allowing the areas to dictate the prices of their products. With Oversight from neutral third parties who’s employees aren’t on the boards of competing industries, etc.

I do love my interesting species of wood, will I stop using what my local supplier offers? No I won’t. To do so, will eventually take the food out of some persons children’s mouths. It does those people no good. It is also nothing but virtue signaling to your friends. What I will do though is only buy enough for what I need at that time. I will also start planning my projects so that they showcase what is available in a given region while providing some sort of documentation which may help educate all involved. For example, I am currently building two guitars. One I am using nothing but all hardwoods native to Texas where I live. The other was to be built solely from two pieces of Bloodwood I purchased 13 years ago and the color floored me. Well I see how that wood ages now and it is a perfect natural match to the Cherry finish Gibson used to use. Which started the project. While going through more planning and gathering materials for that build, I wanted to break up the red a little so I was looking at something to use as some small stringers. I didn’t have to look further than the Bloodwood entry on this site. I’m going to use the other neat looking wood that is of the same genus as bloodwood. Snakewood. My supplier had a piece that will be used in its entirety for this build. It then hit me to plan my builds to be themed to showcase a regions hardwood offerings. This is the type of conservation I can do and also feel good about it. I don’t build many instruments. Maybe one or two a year. I’m the only one who seems to pick exotic wood for my personal builds.

I do not like native hardwood that grows in the United States that I have access to where I am able to hold a piece in my hand. Maple is like working in a coal mine while wearing white and trying to not get dirty, Oak I love, but refuse to use it because the tannins and my skin composition do not like each other(not fun walking around with black stains all over your hands and arms for a week after working with any oak), I would like to see what Elm is like, Cherry is nice but we don’t get much here in south Texas and what we do get isn’t visually appealing and priced like it is.
mom liking the mesquite I am using on this Texas build. It’s the first time I’ve worked with mesquite aside from barbecuing with it. This is the first wood I have worked with that has actually dulled a saw blade in one cut to where I had to replace it. Including Ipe and African Ironwood. The blade wasn’t new, but was very sharp.

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By: Matt https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-11296 Thu, 27 Aug 2020 01:41:07 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-11296 In reply to ejmeier.

Just for info, Bob Taylor now co owns a company in Cameroon that handles between 50-75%+ of the ebony trade there (only country where it’s still really legal). They are concerned with conservation and are in fact cultivating new ebony forests. He’s doing a similar thing in Hawai’i with Koa.

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By: Marcella Marais https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-8570 Sun, 13 Oct 2019 21:07:48 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-8570 It’s great to see how much you people care about wood and forests. I visited a beautiful ebony forest in Mauritius this year where they are doing great work to reverse the ebony deforestation. Anyone who wants to help ebony reforestation efforts in Mauritius have a look at
https://www.ebonyforest.com/

“Since 2006 Ebony Forest has worked to reverse the impacts of habitat degradation and invasive species to create a sanctuary for the island’s unique and rich biodiversity.”

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By: Eric https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-8338 Thu, 05 Sep 2019 03:11:31 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-8338 In reply to Bill.

It could be ebony, though it might also be a very dark and aged piece of rosewood. Some older pieces of rosewood, when left unfinished (particularly Brazilian rosewood and Bois de Rose) can turn very dark, basically black. If you have worked with either ebony or rosewoods, the scent of the wood can be helpful to compare.

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By: Bill https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-8335 Wed, 04 Sep 2019 15:51:20 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-8335 I do a little woodworking- an acquaintance’s husband passed on, and she gave me a bunch of wood blanks…many very dark. Any thoughts on what this might be? No stain applied…just planed. Very dense stuff. Cheers!

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By: Stu https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-7769 Tue, 14 May 2019 14:35:30 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-7769 In reply to Jim Fellows.

Our pear wood in the U.K. is getting harder to source due to demand, there’s an old orchard up the road for me that had hundreds of pear trees and apple trees, it used to be owned by an old cider company that went under in the last finical crisis and the receivers called in the tree surgeons and all of it was chipped the whole orchard. I tried my hardest to buy some pear trees, it took them around a month and a half to butcher this beautiful pear wood. It was worth potentially millions. I tried to tell them but they said were payed to do a job here and that’s it, I even tried to bribe them but nope all gone. Turns out that the land was worth more than the trees and is now being built on by the real estate companies. Sad sad world we live in.

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By: Stu https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-7768 Tue, 14 May 2019 14:20:13 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-7768 In reply to Timothy Tikker.

Yes I live in the U.K. and encounter Bog oak all of the time. It’s cheap here because of its relatively Easy to get in fact burr oak or Oak Burl for our American friends is actually harder to get because all of the big motor and furniture companies buy it up before any can trickle down to us, companies such as Rolls Royce or Bentley, Astin Marten and various cabinet factories. Bog oak is not a hard wearing wood especially compared to any ebony species also because it’s an oak it has tiny imperfections due to the pores which black ebony does not so they need filling and the finish is no where as decent as as black ebony because of this. Bog oak is not a good stand in for black ebony. Lead wood may be a better alternative because it does get very dark and it’s as hard or harder than black ebony and widely available and because of the hardness can take a beautiful polish.

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By: Timothy Tikker https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-7502 Tue, 26 Mar 2019 19:08:09 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-7502 About bog oak: I did my Master’s Degree in Music/Organ Performance at the University of Oregon in Eugene, which has a pipe organ built in Germany in 1972, which used bog oak instead of ebony for the black keys on the manual keyboards. By the time I was a student there when the organ was only ten years old, the bog oak had worn down to quite an uneven surface, in a way that would never have happened with real ebony. The feel was unpleasant and distracting enough for playing that these key coverings were replaced after a few more years with real ebony. So, I’d say that bog oak should be reserved for projects in which the wood will be looked at more than it would actually be touched, because with constant handling it will wear down, and that unevenly.

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By: Dutch https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-7421 Sun, 10 Mar 2019 12:20:51 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-7421 In reply to Melissa Kooyman.

Don’t give it up. Use it wisely.

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By: Sierrafrogs https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-6474 Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:57:30 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-6474 I’m surprised that neither the main article nor the comments mentioned persimmon as an ebony “substitute.” It’s not really a substitute because it’s a true ebony of the genus Diospyros (Diospyros virginiana, among other species). Besides its use as a fruit tree, the wood is used in golf clubs because it’s very hard and strong, and it is sometimes suggested as an ebony alternative in musical instruments. The main impediment to wide use seems to be that there is no dependable supply, and I’ve heard that persimmon fruit tree wood is less dense than wood that is allowed to grow at its own pace. Nevertheless, the tree clearly has a growth rate adequate to supply lumber dependably, and is perhaps just in need of production techniques. The heartwood is medium to dark reddish brown, and the sapwood is light colored like African and Asian ebonies. In my experience it responds well to black dye so if anyone insists on jet black fingerboard wood persimmon will do the job (but I think it’s very pretty just as it is). Also, just as an FYI, I have several largish ebony carvings that my father brought back from west Africa after World War II, and though they are ebony they have very obviously been colored black. My father mentioned that the native artisans used black boot dye to achieve the color–even older native African ebony was not always as black as we’ve been led to think.

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By: Jim Fellows https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-5311 Sat, 19 May 2018 22:47:24 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-5311 Fumed oak (ammonia from barn animal urine in medieval times) has reached a new level with vacuum processing with turnaround times of 4 to 5 weeks. The more tannin the darker, same chocolate ranges from dark golden brown to almost jet black follow natural grain and flaking patterns. At the moment most oak cut by tree removal companies is chipped or at best used as firewood. Meanwhike, the same white oak in a controlled forest in Germany still produces 600 year old trees six hubdred years adter becoming a managed forest and has fuming in full production. I estimate $15,000 per tree if turned into guitar sets at $220 each, which is what I pay. Meanwhile Americans pay big bucks to have large white oak trees removed and chipped. We are every bit as bad as those third world countries. Look what we did to Redwood and red cedar guants: turned them into decks and disposed of 20 years later.

Example 2: in America ornamental pear trees are being cut and chipped because of weak limbs and being called an invasive species. I asked the arborist to save the trunk when he removed one from my property due to crowding of other trees as it grew faster and larger than expected. The wood is identical to the best European pear lumber and veneer I have purchased. All these trees go into the chippet, hundreds every day. We only had to look inside. Local wood merchant thought I was ridiculous and laughed when I told him this and shiwed photos of both woods sude by side. Yet he sells holly for top dollar, most expensive under ebony and a few exotics. People just don’t think much. Last time I asked him if he coukd get European oear wood. He could not. Pearwood, when you can get it, is priced above purpleheart, mahogany and padauk, and if larger than usual and figured rises to match Indian Rosewood. It is extremely common today, growing in planned landscaoes, parking lot dividers, and along streets by the millions. But instead of selling it they are determined to chip it. At the least it surpasses cherry as firewood. We should be smarter than this. This is a business opportunity for someone willing to get on to thus. Did I mention that stained pearwood has been the best ebony substitute in Europe for hundreds of years.

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By: Raymond Walton https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-5184 Sat, 05 May 2018 08:42:46 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-5184 In reply to Chris Gaddis.

I’m with you here. I think there is also joy to be had in using old furniture that has been thrown out for Guitars. Not just furniture but anything old that is otherwise for the fire. Where I get a bit out of kilter is the retrospectively applied logic, if something was built years ago, when times were so different its plain daft to make it illegal. At least instruments have purpose, they are not meant to be trophies. Well to some they are I suppose. Numpty collectors.

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By: Charles https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-4892 Wed, 21 Mar 2018 23:40:24 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-4892 I sell old woodworking tools and many from 50 to 100 to 150 years old used ebony or rosewood. My concern now is that these can be considered non-saleable due to CITES listing and their history and use may be destroyed with no help in conserving the forests now. I have also had customers visiting countries to find the listed woods now have no economic value so are used as firewood.

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By: Igor' Olechnowicz https://www.wood-database.com/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/comment-page-1/#comment-4253 Wed, 18 Oct 2017 05:13:00 +0000 http://www.wood-database.com/?page_id=13244#comment-4253 If you need really dark thing, use any wood from Prunus genus. Just stain-it-through using the same process as the nature does with bog oak – soak it in iron salts. Depending on initial tannin content in your species, additional pre-soaking in tannin solution may be required. I successfully stained-through samples of cherry plum (Prunus cerasifera) 5 mm (1/3″) thick in just a week and used as a fretboard and pegs (didn’t tried thicker yet). After that you may cut it, carve it and sand it – first it may appear whitish, but when you fine-sanded and polished it, black colour returns! Preferably use the most ‘butt’ part of the trunk, underground being the best in terms of density (SG up to spectacular 0.9!) – then you have very dense and very black item! Sometimes though whitish streaks may persist – consider it as a bonus variation. Finishing (oil or lacquer) will further blacken things.

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